Design Discussion: Raknar Changes

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Elyssia, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. Elyssia

    Elyssia Community Manager Staff Member

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  2. Elegost

    Elegost Artisan

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    I agree that the Spiderlings would have been a pain to complete and the new system seems fine to me. It's more in-line with the other Races.
    Raknar are really cool, but I still think they are the PvP-oriented Race of this game. Doesn't hurt to make them interesting though. :D
     
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  3. Iauquai

    Iauquai Veteran

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    The new changes are definitely thoughtful for Raknar players. Though, their chitin growth makes me think these creatures will become very ravenous cannibals. I can see Raknar numbers being kept in check by the Raknar themselves. This doesn't bother me, but I wonder how other players would feel about it.
     
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  4. Holmes

    Holmes Artisan

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    The design for the different creatures feels more and more same-y. I wonder if resources would be better spent making an awesome "human fantasy" survival game and implementing the races later. Then you don't have to wash down your design to have a mediocre middle ground.
     
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  5. Bruxail

    Bruxail Master

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    We all know how raknar improve their webbing, they get grandma to show them how to knit. :D
     
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  6. Brax

    Brax CoFounder / Creative Director Staff Member

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    I appreciate the feedback but have to disagree on them feeling same-y. They climb walls, have dark vision, use eggs to establish respawn points (no need to make anything), evolve as they improve (where dragons must hit requirements, then molt), have their own dietary system, a different inventory system, can't equip items and so on.
     
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  7. Holmes

    Holmes Artisan

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    As long as those things all come in, I think that's great! My concern is that these features would fade or be cut and the time spent working on them would be more fruitful hammering out strong human fields.
     
  8. Mata

    Mata Journeyman

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    I think they are hammering out strong human fields. When I skim the roadmaps I see almost all effort going into creating structure and gameplay for the humans. There are many different lists for the human race and only one or two each for the other races. I don't think it's much of an issue for them to throw around concepts and ideas about non-humans and asking for community input, especially when the game still has so long to go. It's good that they are focusing on humans most though cause I agree they should have the most depth. I know a ton of people aren't gonna wanna be the plain ol' humans, so it would be good to give them enough depth to motivate players to choose them, and probably would provide a good template for the rest of the game
     
  9. Loestri

    Loestri CoFounder / Project Manager Staff Member

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    Raknar aren't going to fade or be cut . . . trust me on this one. They are here to stay.
     
  10. achilles2511

    achilles2511 Artisan

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    In regard to two things with increasing stats, I have to ask: When it says the HP progression resets, does that just mean for progress to the next level? Or does it start shrinking your raknar into a tiny little thing as it gets hungrier and hungrier? While the armor makes sense in how it levels up, in terms of balance... how would raknar build their armor up initially if there are no other raknar, is there some way to build it up without needing to find other raknar?
     
  11. Elyssia

    Elyssia Community Manager Staff Member

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    The progress reset is just of the current level, and the chitin growth can be of equally strong raknar, so a raknar with 0 armor can eat another raknar with 0 armor and then increases their armor to 1.
     
  12. achilles2511

    achilles2511 Artisan

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    Yes, I understood that. I mean, there are NO other raknar. Say it's a server with five people, all of who know each other. There's a dragon, a raknar and three humans. They all want to see who can build up and kill the others the fastest. But, seeing as there is only one raknar, how would he gain chitin?
     
  13. Brax

    Brax CoFounder / Creative Director Staff Member

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    He'd need to recruit a friend to buy Exile and play a raknar. ;)
     
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  14. Iauquai

    Iauquai Veteran

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    Or eat NPC Racknar? I mean the other option seems to be a lot of players multi-boxing accounts to armor up their Raknar.
     
  15. zlajo

    zlajo Artisan

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    Ok, so i think i got a lengthy feedback.

    First i want to start to say that i think these changes are an improvement to the Raknar. But there are a few more things that still or newly bother me.

    1.) The raknar got the incentive to fight and kill other raknar. Great. Wildlife will be the easier way to stay full to gain more health. We got that covered. But we lost the incentive to kill humans. Just like other raknar improve the chitine, Humans need to improve something else. In my opinion not their attacks, but either their webbing ( humans might have very digestive kolagen) or their egg laying ( humans got tasty iron/protein rich blood).

    In my opinions neither dragons, nor epic monsters need to give anything. Further races like elves, dwarves or others might!

    2.) I do not feel like sprinting should be something that is improved with stages or levels. I played oblivion and taking Atheltic was almost a cheat to level up easily as you just ran everywhere. They recognized the mistake and it's no more in skyrim. It was also modded many times to influence less or no level gain through running/sprinting.

    On one side this does not feel natural, a spider ( beast) to sprint just to train it's endurance. On the other hand it will force many players to min/max gameplay, instead to fully immerse themselves, just to level up that sprint. Even the draw back won't help ( running yourself unconscious). It will just put more focus on min maxing it.

    In my opinion Sprint should not be something you level up, but instead something that can be temporarily boosted. If a raknar is 3 days ( ingame) in more combats (more then 1 with wildlife, raknar or human), it will get a 10% increase in stamina total, 10% stamina regen and 5% movement speed. This can stack up to 3 times (9 days). If the raknar isn't active for 6 days it will lose one stack. The bad side of every stack is that it makes the hunger meter drop faster by 5%-10% per stack ( up to 15%-30%, this is a balance decision that needs to be tested).

    On another note, every time the Raknar evolves his health and/or Chitine, the stacks could be reset ( as he grows heavier).

    This way sprint will incentivize natural behavior for Raknar and the players behind them and should not encourage min/max playstyles.

    3.) I do not like the linear improvements of raknar.

    It doesn't matter if the player plays a human, dragon or raknar. Every player likes and wants to personalize and specialize his ingame character. If you want to make the raknar a fun to play race, you need to breath more life into them. And the only way to do that is to give the players choices and diversities.

    And even in nature it's like that. There is not one spider that beats everything. Some spiders are bigger and stronger then others, other spiders got stronger webs, the next ones got terrifyingly effective venom, some got skills to lasso their prey with their web, while others can jump and have great mobility.

    The current system just improves the spider more and more. Instead, you should give the player ( EVEN if playing a raknar) meaningful choices, ofcourse inside the borders of the lore, that influence their playstyle.

    Examples are:

    Attack improvements - poison , physical or range ( range attacks are additional attacks and have a cooldown, while the other enhance existing attacks).
    Poisons- neurotoxins (impairing movement and attack, paralyzing), delusional toxins ( impairing vision, hallucinating),
    physical- Piercing fangs ( attacks can pierce better through armor), Sucking fangs ( attacks restore small amount of health to the raknar by drinking blood from it's victim), Broadened fangs ( raknar can attack 2/3/4 targets at once).
    Range - spit acid (degrades armor, burns enemy)

    How this would work. The player reaches a higher level of attack. Now he can choose to improve it with poison ( dot damage), physical ( direct damage) or range. The next time he gets to the point to increase his attack, if he chose poison, he will be able to choose between neuro- or delusional toxins, neuro impairing movement while delusional impairing vision. Let's say he chose neurotoxin. After this, as he improves his attack he gains higher dot damage and the effect is improved with imparing attacks as wel.THe next time he improves attack, his dot will be able to paralyze the enemy target for a second.


    When the player chose poisons, physical and range attacks are locked. And the same would function separately for every atribute he can increase.

    I just showed an example how you can implement diversity, but there are many ways possible. It is not as much important how you give diversity to players, as long as it makes them feel authentic as a living being inside ToA. As long as their choices influence their playstyle. Without this, Raknar will just be a killing machine without enough depth of play.
     
  16. achilles2511

    achilles2511 Artisan

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    Very excellent points, and in regards to most, I agree. But in terms of sprinting... as long as they do have a system of skill increases, you will have to understand that people will want to increase their skills, even if having a raknar training for the Olympics might not make sense.
    (Oh, and in Oblivion I did once level up a bunch with athletics, and let me tell you that made for the hardest game I've ever played, because enemies got tougher/stronger and I got to run faster. If you are going to grind a skill, athletics isn't the one to do.)
     

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