Trials of Ascension

When Does Shoving Someone Out Of The Way Become An Attack?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fornax, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Fornax
    Hero

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    Following the rules about trying to stay on topic, I figured I would bring my question to a new thread. The previous conversation that got me thinking...


    Yep, you will be able to shove a bit, I recall that too.

    So I wonder when physical shoving might be seen as an attack, depending on the speed of the person running. At some point, couldn't it be?

    Perhaps it will never be seen as an attack. It might cause more problems than its worth....but running headlong at full speed and slamming into a farmer would certainly constitute an attack to me.

    Since there will be unarmed combat, and mass displacement is quite often very helpful, I hope one day that shoving will be considered an attack.

    I bet it will be more coding problems unless they define it narrowly, or actually have a popup: do you wish to attack? kind of thing as you slam into someone.
  2. Gassy the Goblin Forged Chaos

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    Good question, good thread :) .

    I think the 'shove' could be most dangerous when causing a 'trigger' event, if it's not considered an attack;

    Occam shoves Gassy into a portal (not flagged as an attack)> entering portal triggers an event > event is, orcs in room make an 'attack' check > Gassy gets attacked, etc.

    Not an exact example by any means, but the idea being, characters bumping into each other can cause a player to get 'shoved' , maybe?
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  3. BloodyYankey Member

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    My guess is that there would be simple 'shove' function, perhaps a non-aggressive move that will move the character model slightly into the direction they're pushed in. Then, there could be a 'tackle' function, which would be seen as aggressive, and would knock (or just push them REALLY far) over the target and/or damage them.
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  4. Fornax
    Hero

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    Well, they have stated that there really isn't any physics in the game in terms rag doll type inertia....at least that's how I took it. It seems to me if you cannot pass through another player, then trying to plow over someone could count as an attack, whether the person moving intended it that way or not.
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  5. legendmaker08
    Warlord

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    Well, I'm glad to see my comment started a random productive discussion. :D

    When I mentioned this, I had in mind that if some guy is sitting somewhere, the "shove" would just be a simple sidling of your character up to his and just kind of nudging him to a point where you can safely make it past him. But, now that I think about, if you were in a hurry, you couldn't do this, and it might be considered a kind of "griefing" tactic if you set up an impassable human wall that nobody could effectively make it through, short of going aggro and start slicing up people.

    Maybe there could be, as BloodyYankey mentioned, a "tackle" type of action that would be seen as aggressive. I'm talking like, Assassin's Creed tackle the messenger, full on American Football body-tackle type of thing. That would be considered aggressive, but if you're in a hurry (running from something/someone) it gets the guy out of the way quickly.

    Perhaps, following this sequence, there could be a lesser degree type of shove, which I would like to deem the "Bar Shove." You know this shove. It's the one that happens right before a full-on fight. That "egging-on" shove. The one that happens when male puffery is at its finest. I call it the "Bar Shove" cause that's the one that usually happens after you and your buds have had perhaps 1 too many and the liquid bravado kicks in and you bump into a guy, and then: *shove*

    I feel that one would still be flagged as an aggressive action, but not to the degree of tackling a guy. Perhaps the equivalent of throwing a punch at a guy on the streets: aggressive, but not the equivalent of shivving a guy or body-checking him to the ground.

    I know I, personally, could see a bunch of tavern fights start this way, and it would be entertaining to watch. XD
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  6. Android
    Enforcer

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    I want to see shoves develop into full martial arts integration. Suck on that, Age of Wushu.
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  7. NotSoAngryGoat
    Warlord

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    There's going to be issues, even if it's just a gentle shove. Unless you can only do one or two a minute to someone. Otherwise you'll have people shoving you as you try to talk to merchants or access your vault slots etc and moving you away. I can see people being shoved off walls and cliffs too.
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  8. Self-propelled Owl Well-Known Member

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    I imagine shoving would be like in assassin's creed, and if that's an attack or not is the player's choice.

    Had a bad day and some noob-looking man pushed you? Pop a cap in the foo, and run from the guards.

    Now as for NPC's reaction to shoves, well, I think passive-agressive is best.
    Just make the guards give you the evil eye, or "i am dissapoint" look.
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  9. Guenhwyvar Active Member

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    I could imagine the tackle used as a submission move to restrain an enemy or an ally from getting away.
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  10. Bruxail
    Warrior

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    Nice topic, and interesting. Maybe there will be different levels, like push, shove, roll like a boulder, etc. With different levels, you have the option of it being like an attack or not, thus not flagging you. Of course, it would be more difficult to move someone out of the way if they were wearing full plate as compared to cloth, so maybe that factors in too if the lesser push doesn't work too well.
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  11. Geary Active Member

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    Maybe walking very slowly pushes people, and is seen as non-aggressive, running knocks people a food or two to the side, and any damage they take from the environment in the next five or six seconds is pinned on you, and kicking people knocks them directly back and counts as an attack.
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  12. Fornax
    Hero

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    Some of this I like, but if it were implemented like this, there would be an interesting learning curve for all of us players who are used to running wherever we want, however we want. I think it would eventually get annoying in a busy town declining a ton of pop-ups asking if I wanted to report someone who ran into me. If the popup expires after say, 30 secs, and was below the field of view, I suppose it would be fine. Still, you wonder how much something like this could be abused, with needy, immature types making a nuisance of themselves. (like those jackasses right now in grocery stores who smash milk gallons on purpose acting as if they are falling....)
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  13. legendmaker08
    Warlord

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    Madness? THIS...IS...NEW ARYNDEL!!! *kick*

    (used New Aryndel since I couldn't think of any other settlement names. :p)
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  14. Insanity
    Hero

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    When you shove them with a sword...
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  15. Geary Active Member

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    That's why I said that you would only get a rep hit if the person took environmental damage a few seconds after shoving them. ;3 Besides, you don't get pop-ups to report people, you have to hover your target reticule over them for a certain length of time and then report them.
  16. Fornax
    Hero

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    Oh yeah. That's right.

    No sword shoving, hey now!
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  17. legendmaker08
    Warlord

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    What about sword-nudging? You know. Just the tip. ;)
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  18. Rurahk Silverhand
    Conscript

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    I don't think characters will be able to run everywhere, because of the stamina drain and all. I don't remember if that was the old design or the new one, though.
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  19. CTheRain
    Warlord

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    If you gentle push someone off the cliff and they die, would it be counted as a murder or part of the system?
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  20. Fornax
    Hero

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    This is precisely one of the things I would like to know.
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